twitter google

Specific people’s opinions of Bisping / Hamill

I’m not gonna bore people who don’t give a shit about this by posting this whole thing on the front page. But if you go after the jump you can read Joe Rogan’s opinion of the Bisping/Hamill debacle, as well as judge Jeff Mullan’s justifications. If there’s any other people feeling shamed enough to try and convince us they aren’t corrupt or incompetent, I’ll update this post with their thoughts too.

**Updated** Cecil People’s explanation has been added.

Joe Rogan (smokes lots of weed, doesn’t think we landed on the moon)

I’ve gotten a ton of emails about this, and I’ve seen all the threads here about it so I thought I would make a reply. I thought that clearly the most damage in the fight was done by Hamill in the first round. That was really the only time anyone was hurt. Hamill hit Bisbing with a huge right hand and had him hurt very badly. Hamill got some takedowns after that, but was unable to do any significant damage from them.

As for scoring, I just walked in the door from London, so I’ll have to look at the fight again and see what I think, but I remember when the fight was over I thought that if I had to bet, I would say that Hamill was going to walk away with a close decision. The first round was clearly his, the second was probably his as well, and I thought Bisbing did enough to win the third.

At the time I honestly didn’t think the decision was that crazy. We see so many fucking weird scorecards in the UFC that maybe I’m just getting used to it.

For instance, if I’m not mistaken, one of the judges in the Clay Guida vs Marcus Arellio fight scored the fight for Arellio, and I thought that was just fucking insane. Fortunately the other two saw it for Guida and he walked away with the win, but it’s an example of how goofy the scoring can be sometimes.

As for anyone telling me what to say or who to put the emphasis on during the commentary, I can tell you 100% that it has never happened. The ONLY thing that the ufc has ever asked me not to do, was mention Pride by name when they were in the middle of negotiations and shit was getting ugly between them. This was around the time when they had Wanderlei come into the UFC and challenge Chuck with a Pride T shirt on, and the UFC had felt like they were getting played and that Pride was using the negotiations to get free publicity for Pride in the USA and that they didn’t really have intentions to have any of their fighters come over here.

I thought regardless of the decision, the Hamill Bisbing fight was very entertaining, and both guys fought their hearts out. Coming on here and shitting on Bisbing for his performance is just ignorant. He did his best against a powerful guy that surprised him with some new found skills and a good game plan. The decision isn’t going to hurt Hamill in any way, and in fact it probably made him some new fans. It’s certainly not going to hurt him in the long run with the UFC. If I was advising Bisbing, I would probably tell him to drop down to 185. He walks around at 205 with a little body fat, and if he changed his diet and concentrated on the lighter weight class I think it suits his frame more.

I think there have been some really insightful posts on here about scoring, and some very good suggestions. One of them that I think we should look in to, is announcing the scorecards after each round. That could possibly help, and the only downside I can think of is that it would make some guys that are ahead ease up and take fewer chances because they know they’ve got a win in the bank if they can just coast. A way around that would be finishing bonuses for a submission or KO.

Overall though, I think this decision outlines a real problem that we have in this sport using a scoring system that was designed for boxing. I believe we need to use a more comprehensive system that quantifies each aspect of the sport. It’s not going to be easy to come up with, but I think that decisions like this are going to eventually force a change. Personally, I prefer the scoring that they used in Pride where they judge the fight as a whole and count the damage being scored at the end more highly.

Jeff Mullen (scored the bout 29-28 Bisping)

Hello to everyone on the Underground. I have been reading the underground for years. I used to post quite a bit. Then I decided it would be better for me to stay out of all the arguments. I want to thank all of you guys for being so nice to me through the years. I have seen almost no negative posts about me here until now.

I first started judging the UFC in 1996. I have been judging UFC almost twice as long as any other active judge. I am a former kick boxer and have been training grappling for 13 years. I am not here to argue with any of you or tell you that your opinion is wrong. I am only going to tell you why I judged the fight the way I did. Watch the fight again and turn off the sound. Commentary can color what you see.

No doubt Bisping dominated the 1st. He hurt Bisping with a right hand right off the bat and again near the end of the round. He out scored Bisping and busted him up. It was a very impressive round for Hamill but still a 10-9 round. Not dominate enough for a 10-8. Watch the beginning of the second round closely. When Hamill throws the jab, Bisping slips the punch and hits him with his own counter jab. It is hard to see on camera because Hamill?s back is to the camera. His back was also to Goldie who was talking like the beginning of this round was like a continuation of the 1st. If you look you will see that Hamill is facing me giving me a clear view of what is landing. Bisping was landing the jab again and again and not getting hit.

Hamill got 2 takedowns in rounds 2 and 3 but did very little with them. Bisping is using an active guard trying to turn for armbars and sweeps, Hamill is doing very little on top. Bisping is keeping him from scoring or improving his position. In the 3rd round Bisping actually lands more punchesd from the bottom than Hamill does from the top. In both the 2nd and 3rd rounds Bisping does more scoring. Striking.

Under pride style scoring Hamill would have won. He did more damage, but it was all in the 1st round. By 10 point must system Bisping won the fight 2 rounds to 1 . 29-28 Bisping. Sometime the angle you see the fight effects your decision. That is why they put the judges on 3 different sides.

BY THE WAY MARIO YAMASAKI THOUGHT BISPING WON ROUNDS 2 AND 3 ALSO. MARIO WAS THE REF AND HAD A BETTER VIEW THAN ANY OF US. I have never taken a payoff as some of you have suggested and never will. You may not agree with my decision but please don?t question my honesty.

Thank you
Jeff Mullen

Cecil Peoples (scored the bout 29-28 Bisping) –from the fight network

Peoples, a judge for over 40 UFC events, doesn’t argue that this latest malestrom’s first round went to Hamill and the third to the Englishman, deeming the second period the only one open for debate.

“I gave Bisping the second round, first because Hamill was beginning to run out of gas after the first round,” said Peoples. “Bisping fought like he wanted that fight. He came back aggressive [from the first round]. Hamill did take him down, but he did nothing with the takedown. Overall, Bisping was more aggressive. Hamill just held him down. Bisping’s punching was more effective.”

Peoples, who sat equidistant to judges Mullen and Watts cageside, says his decision was nothing personal, but one based heavily on human interpretation under the structure he was given to work in. Peoples awarded Bisping the final round based on the amount of damage he incurred on Hamill, and said that the Brit’s hometown popularity had no bearing in his thought process.

“I have no vested interest in either one of them,” said Peoples. “I could probably walk past both of them on the street and still not know who they are.”

  • Jump Up Johnny says:

    More damage control.

    Bisping lost every round. Plain and simple.

  • Johnny Yamaski says:

    “this decision outlines a real problem that we have in this sport using a scoring system that was designed for boxing.”

    WRONG, this outlines a problem with an entire organization including corrupt judges, refs, even fighters throwing matches: remember Herrring vs. Nogueira. This goes all the way to the fat cats on top. Looks like they’re gonna do nothing to reverse the decision.

    Something funny goes on at every single event now.

  • Jonathan says:

    You know I called into the Sherdog! After the Bell and both TJ and Breen seemed to mock me/make fun of my opinion that Bisping got a “hometown” decision. Kind of pissed me off.

  • Jonathan says:

    I do not think that there is a single thing “dirty” about the Herring/Nog 3 bout. I knew from the moment he did it what Herring was going for…he was wanting Nog to get back on his feet…with is REALLY wobbly legs…so he could knock him with some punches. Herring knows that on the ground, he is absolutely in the red zone with Nog…even when Nog is staving off unconsciousness. Plus, he had to remember that this is the guy Fedor beat into a pulp on the ground with the most vicious and devastating gNp and stilled failed to beat the guy, not to mention Cro Cop did something eerily similar and ended up getting arm barred for his efforts.

    Now does it make more sense?

  • Johnny Geovani says:

    They must have been giving Bisping points for bouncing his shoulders around.

  • Johnny says:

    Heath let him up after nearly KO-ing his ass. Then in the next round heath did nothing for one minute and let him recover. Bullshit flag.

  • John says:

    It’s great to hear their sides of the story. Maybe Bisbing really did win.

  • Jemaleddin says:

    Who is this BisBing person that Joe was talking about? Did he fight Hamill after Bisping?

    (Lay off the weed, Joe! We love you!)

  • tony says:

    Bisping won yeah bring on the next bitch as bisping will be the champ.

  • Good job rounding up the quotes, I hadn’t read those yet. It’s interesting to hear from two people who were sitting there when the fight was going on yet they both had different opinions, shows how close the fight truly was.

  • asd says:

    boxing is the same way with bad judges/decisions.

  • Tommy says:

    I too believe Hamill won but to me the decision shows the ineptitude of having a 10/9 point system which favors a home town favorite especially in only a 3 round fight.

  • Wu Tang says:

    I saw the fight too, but i say the count won. I was not swuaded on the color comentary, which kept on saying “THAT BIG RIGHT HAND HAMMIL DID IN THE FIRST ROUND,” throughout the fight. Count did alot of work, while Ham was lay-praying after take down. Overall, Count won and put more energy and was not ‘rocked’ in the first like Goldberg kept on saying. Count won, close, but it wasnt the easiest of the win.

  • I don’t buy the ‘commentating influenced people’ thing … i watched the japanese feed and didn’t get any commentary. It still seemed obvious that Hamill won.

  • Euthyphro says:

    Yup, I was about to post to say that the article — and therefore I — was wrong about Cecil scoring all 3 for Hamill. You’re on top of it, Fightlinker.

  • Well, I just based things off of Buffer’s reading. I’m just lucky I was right about Gerbasi 😉 And how crazy is it that UFC employees read this blog?!?!?!

  • Jemaleddin says:

    Just because you don’t speak Japanese doesn’t mean that you weren’t influenced – maybe you speak subliminal Japanese or something. :-)

  • penxv says:

    Bisping couldn’t have won rd2… he ran the whole time. He ran. No sentient being could have scored either rd1 or rd2 for Bisping.

    Hamill looked like a fighter and not a wrestler… He looked good.

  • penxv says:

    And I thought that Hamill won the third rd as well.

  • Matt says:

    The fight was a DRAW!

  • Erik says:

    I’m a swede living in asia, and I have no preference on the fighters. I’ve been a fan since the early first ufc’s. When I watched the fight the first time, I was as stunned of the decision as anyone – I couldn’t believe it. However, today I read the judges reasons, rewatched the second round (in general, everyone seems to agree rd1 to hamill, rd3 to bisping). I have to say I changed my opinion and I can agree with giving it to Bisping. Yes, he backpedals most of the round (and looks scared and weak, while Hamill advances fearlessly like the terminator), but Bispings counterpunches connect way more than Hamill’s (which ALL of them misses, look again!). Yes, Hamill gets two takedowns, neither is very impressive and he does nothing with them (except a few weak punches) while Bisping does have the fairly active guard AND gets up and stands up after both (which should nullify some of the “benefit” of the takedown in a scoring system). Actually it is kinda relieving that this is not yet another bout that is decided by the wrestlers ability to just score a takedown (which has ruined far more fights on the scoring card!). So in retrospect I have to say I am pleased with the two judges decision to give round 2 to Bisping. I can’t see anything besides octagon control and 2 crappy takedowns in favor of Hamill. I think people’s perception of the bout has been clouded by the commentators and Bispings and Hamills body language, props to the judges for NOT falling for that or the takedowns. Unfortunately, too many UFC fights in the past has been decided on the takedown issue giving much advantage to purebred wrestlers. What crap the british judge was on scoring all three rounds for Hamill I have no clue..

  • Erik says:

    Actually, I might add that the 10-9 scoring system is probably what killed this bout. Hamill destroyed Bisping in rd1, but round 2 was VERY close with an edge to Bisping (still looking like shit) for inflicted damage and actually connecting with punches (all of Hamill’s miss really). Then Bisping barely won rd3 while looking crap again. Hamill looked calm, confident and fearless throughout – he just didn’t connect.

    If the fight was judged as a whole, Hamill would be the winner. If it was a bit easier to get 10-8 rounds, it would probably be a draw. If draw rounds were possible, it would possibly have been a draw, unless 10-8 was easier and it should have been a Hamill victory again.

    Unfortunately, the boring boxing scoring system is in effect and ruined the fight. Screw Bisping for being such an arrogant dick. I actually liked him before this and on TUF3, but now he’s lost all my respect though according TO THE RULES he won the fight. Hamill is the moral winner however.

    Time to change the system…

  • o51r15 says:

    I buy the explinations. I mean I like most people gave the 1st to Matt and the 3rd to Bisping. I really thought the 2nd round was hard to judge because Matt pressed foward and Bisping looked unconfortable with the pressure. Matt hand a couple of takedowns, but didn’t capatalize on them. I thought the strikes landed were pretty even in the 2nd round with Bisping hitting the jab quite a bit. I thought it was going to go to Matt when it was all over, only because I felt the striking in round 2 was pretty even, and Matt had the take downs and kept up the pressure, even though he was tired. Of course according to the judges they felt that the striking in round 2 went more the way of Bisping.

    Matt has improved by leaps and bounds, and I’m pretty confident that when they face each other again if Bisping isn’t more prepared than last time he will get his ass handed to him.